After pondering the possible reasons for my recent rejection from HBS and the much-appreciated feedback of those who took the time to read through my HBS applicaton, I think it’s only fitting to summarize what I’ve learned.
By the way, based on the feedback I’ve received I have decided to reapply. I’m not sure if I’ll do that for the next school year or the one after that, but I’m leaning towards two years. Hopefully soon thereafter I’ll be able to write a new post on how to actually get into HBS, but since I’m no expert on that just yet here are my tips on how not to get into the Harvard Business School. Warning – some sarcasm included.
1. Don’t let anyone read your application. They’ll only tell you to change it which results in more work for you. This was my biggest mistake. I had one person read over my app and give me extensive and good feedback, but one isn’t enough. Then there’s tip #2.
2. Especially don’t have any HBS grads or students read your application. I’m convinced if I had done this one thing it would have provided a larger benefit to the possibility of me getting in than any other one thing. The feedback I have received after the fact has been invaluable and eye-opening, and I only wish I had asked for help before. I had myriad reasons, mostly having to do with not wanting to bother people or inconvenience them, but I’ve since realized that 1) people are generally glad to help, 2) you don’t need them to spend hours reviewing your app, often a five minute perusal will provide helpful information, and 3) it’s tough to get in and if you’re not getting help from every source you can then you’re not going to make it, so get over it and ask for help from someone who has gotten through the process successfully.
3. Don’t work so hard on the GMAT, HBS doesn’t care that much about it anyway. In truth I did work hard on the GMAT, but I could have worked harder. I used the Princeton book called Cracking the GMAT, and I think it was great. I focused mostly on the quantitative side of things because I feel fairly comfortable with verbal. This turned out to be a good strategy for me since I got in the 99th percentile in verbal and only the 58th on quantitative. But obviously I should have spent even more time studying quant, especially since I haven’t even looked at this kind of stuff since the last century. Sure, I run a business, but since when to business owners use geometry? Looking at profit and loss statements and balance sheets doesn’t exactly require complicated math, or even GMAT math, which in truth isn’t that complicated.
4. Don’t worry about your GPA, it’s not that big a deal. The sad thing is I probably could have had a 3.9 GPA will very little additional effort on my part, but instead I have a 3.2. Although I knew while I was doing my undergrad and master’s (fyi, I already have a master’s of information systems management) that I would be applying to HBS someday, it wasn’t in the forefront of my mind. I was more concerned about making payroll at the business I was already running than getting good grades. I enjoyed learning and I’ve rarely had trouble getting As when I put even minimal effort into a class, but I was skipping classes to do business deals, working instead of studying, and grades just didn’t seem important to me at the time. Just a tiny extra effort could have bumped my GPA up to a 3.5 or higher, which I believe would look a lot better than a 3.2. Of course I can’t do anything about this now but retake the GMAT and show that I can excel when I want to, but if you’re still doing your undergrad, take my advice and get good grades. It’s not that hard and you’ll have that item checked off forever.
5. Don’t think about your references until a few months before you apply. Meaning no disrespect to my recommenders, I faced a bit of a dilemma while applying when it came to choosing my three references. I’ve run my own company for seven years, so I don’t have a boss who can write one for me. I didn’t want to let my employees know I was applying, so I couldn’t ask one of them. Our business is project-based and so my relationships with clients are generally short and non-personal, that is, I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten to know a client well enough that I’d ask them to write a letter for me. We don’t have any close business partners. So I chose to get letters from a past professor with whom I’ve maintained a close friendship and with whom I’ve interacted a lot as I’ve returned to my school to talk to his classes and such. I chose a board member of my company who has been a mentor to me almost since I started my business. And I chose someone I work with in a volunteer capacity who had gone to Harvard, although not to the business school. Perhaps the fatal flaw here was that while I only knew one of these people in an academic capacity, all three of them are currently employed by academia.
In retrospect, I should have been thinking about my references years before I needed to ask for them. It’s not that I don’t just happen to know people who might be better references, it’s that I haven’t taken the time to cultivate or maintain those relationships. Just staying in touch more would probably have allowed me to approach a different group of people who may have had the kind of background that would be more attractive to HBS.
6. Don’t look at tutorials on how to get into HBS. While HowToGetIntoHBS.com isn’t the most attractive website, and the materials I purchased there were full of grammatical and other errors, the information contained therein was incredibly helpful, and I followed most of it. Evidently not enough. And I would have loved to have found more such resources to draw upon (which is part of the reason for this section of my blog as I seek to pass on what I’ve learned to others). If anyone knows of other good resources, on or offline, please post a comment.
7. Don’t seek out leadership opportunities. I’m still learning about this one. HBS is all about leadership, and so of course they want to see leadership potential and there’s no better way to gauge that then leadership experience. Having started and run multiple businesses I’ve got some of that, but I’m a bit weak when it comes to leadership outside of managing a business. I’ve always been so busy with my business that I hadn’t thought about it much. I’ve been a member of plenty of organizations, I’ve even been on the board in some cases, but now that I’ve been thinking about it more there is much more I could have been doing and could be doing to gain leadership experience. However, what constitutes ideal leadership experience I don’t know and any suggestions would be welcome.
And my final tip…
8. Don’t plan. I’ve planned on going to HBS for ten years, but when I say “plan” I really mean “I’ve wanted to go” and there’s a difference between wanting something and planning on it, setting a course, and executing that plan. As you can see from my comments above, I’ve learned something by being rejected. And perhaps the most important thing I’ve learned is that I should have been more active in preparing to apply to HBS than I have been. While I do feel that I have some great experiences and am a good candidate, my lack of planning caused me to fall short of effectively communicating that through my application. Not only did I fail to express myself, but during the past years I could have done much more to build the type of background that would make me more of an ideal candidate. For this reason I’m leaning towards waiting more than a year to reapply, since I don’t believe the next few months will give me enough time to make the needed improvements.
If you’ve been rejected from HBS, or accepted, I and other would like to hear your input. Just don’t ask me why I want and MBA and why I want to go to HBS. I’ll answer that fully in another post.
Way to go, Josh. I’m a big fan of reapplying. Keep us posted and let me know if I can help at all.
Josh,
I really appreciate these posts on your MBA app. efforts. I think it’s a valuable resource for anyone applying. And, I’m looking forward to your imminent post about how you got in.
What the…??? You’re going to reapply. Josh in all honesty I think you need to reevaluate your motives. Going to HBS for the sake of going to HBS is a waste. If you want a good education then I guess I would support the reapply. If you are still just doing this because you want to hang a plague on your wall then my advice is to forget about it.
It’s your life so if it’s really that important to you then go for it. I suggest rethinking this.
I guess it’s time to create a post explaining why I want to get an MBA and why I want to go to Harvard, since everybody makes incorrect assumptions about why I want to go. Trust me, it’s not for a plaque on the wall and it never was, and I don’t want to go there just for the sake of going.
Hey Don,
Well I was searching about how to get into HBS and I found out how not to get into HBS. I’m not exactly sure this is what I was looking for but it helped reaffirm my thoughts (I’m only 21.)
I was just going to do my application and not ask anyone for help. I was going to do it on my own. Write my own information down in the way I wanted to. I figure that Harvard has so many dull normal applicants with the same old blather that they would just prefer something unique.
I had an epiphany the other day and decided I wanted to apply to a nice MBA school. So I googled and found that Harvard was number one so obviously I should start there. Of course now that Harvard is in the mind it is difficult to get it out.
Here is my information:
3.0 GPA
GMAT (not yet taken)
References (undecided)
Determination 150%
I will take my GMAT in two weeks and in the mean time I want to get my referneces. Honestly I’m such a business freak that I figured the best people to write me references were my friends. Of course I’m not quite sure Harvard would accept that but I still think I may have my best friend write a letter.
References:
1 Friend
1 SCORE Chair in Naples, Florida – I worked with him on a business and met with him once a week for about a year. He knows I’m young, determined, smart, and probably a bit crazy. Hopefully the crazy part will play into my strengths. I think it will.
1 Academic professor of statistics. He is a serious academic and he really likes me.
About my LETTER:
What I am writing in my own memorandum will be quite interesting I’m sure. Here is a small excerpt from my Harvard letter rantings:
**A nameless professor of mine use to say Neil “Anything is possible.” and everyday I would remark back to him “No sir, Everything is possible.” **
I don’t know if this is good for Harvard, but it looks good to me. I like it, and I think they will like it. I want them to know my personality. I talk about business ventures beginning at the age of 13. Because if they don’t know where it all started…
I also want to throw in a 3 min DVD of just daily excerpts of my life. I want them to look, laugh, smile, and accept me just because they can’t say no.
Anyway Don, Thanks for reading. You seem like a successful guy and I would be interested in your thoughts about my strategy.
Thanks so much for the post.
I just google’d ‘how to get into harvard’ and I stumbled upon it. One of my friends is currently applying but under the stress of waiting for his response, I didn’t want to bother him. It’s still a long ways away for me. I just got back from a business plan competition and I think my team and I are really going to make the business happen (we didn’t really care that we didn’t win). my grades aren’t stellar but I know I can get them up to above a 3.5 before I grad and I really want to do that after reading your post (I wasn’t so certain before that it was worth it… but I don’t want to have to write ‘i could have done much better but I didn’t’ a bunch of years from now.)
I’m not sure yet that I really want to go to HBS but I think it’s important that since there is a little bit of want in me, that I do as you said and plan.
For leadership experience, might I humbly suggest you try something like the lions club or maybe even a political organization if you are into that. Since you seem to be a successful businessman, I would probably just make an appointment with a politician in your area and ask what they might suggest for community leadership and even mention that you are looking for it for Harvard. They might even write you a reference at the end of it. That’s my plan…. I’m pretty politically involved already and I’ve found a lot of leadership opportunities there. (I’m policy chair of the youth wing for the Provincial Governing party right now for example).
Thanks again! I think it was really brave of you to post this all on a blog. Not a lot of people confront rejections as opportunities to learn. I think that’s pretty amazing. I look forward to the post where you say how you did end up doing it so I can learn from that too. Maybe you can even be one of my references ; )
Thanks for the post. I’ve been looking into grad school at Harvard for a long time, and I’m kind of worried. I have a 3.91 GPA and have yet to take the GMAT (took a practice and got a 720 so I’m not worried), but I can’t find any definante answers about work experience. I really would like to go to graduate school immediately after finishing my undergraduate, but it seems like Harvard will only accept people with work experience. I have been looking everywhere online to try to see if this is true, but I haven’t found any information except the average age of a 1st year MBA student at Harvard is 27 years old.
Does anyone have any information about work experience requirements or very important suggestions?
I just want to know if its worth applying for. I’ll only be 20 when I graduate from college, and I would like to save that application fee if I don’t have a chance at getting in.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your blog. Definitely I have become more aware of what it takes to become a postgraduate student in the US. I am not planning to apply for HBS but knowing what their requrements are is an excellent standard for me to know what I have to aim for, that is, if my intention is to study for a Postgraduate degree (as I really have not decided on that just yet). I am a Colombian journalist, which makes the process a bit different for me.
sorry man. but you hbs application is just not competitive.
Yeah, I think I figured that out when I got the rejection letter. But thanks for the heads up.
Hey Don
Your listed information is a great source of how to avoid mistakes while working on, not just Harvard, but any kind of application process. And, personally, I think you should keep the desire burning to get to Harvard.
You mentioned that you would post the reason why do you want to get into Harvard. I couldn’t find one on this website, but here is mine… why I want to go to Harvard. I want to succeed… succeed big time…and I want others to succeed. I believe if one has the best tools of the trade, his/her chances of success are much higher. Harvard is the institution where I can acquire such tools. I would have access to best and brightest at the institutions like Harvard. And when I will be confident that I am fully equipped for success, I can take bigger risks. I would be confident that the knowledge and information I would be applying is tested and proven. Once I succeed, I would be much more willing to help others succeed. So, for me, Harvard symbolizes success. Working towards Harvard means working towards success.
Everyone wants to succeed in this world. It’s just that how sure he or she is of his or her success.
Hey Don,
Like with the other people that posted here, I googled “how do get into HBS” and I was pointed to this site — I’m thankful for this. I’ve been looking into business schools as well for the last two years and I’m currently researching on how to improve my application. Here are my credentials:
EDUCATION:
*Graduated 3.73 GPA with a degree in Electrical Engineering
*Currently pursuing a M.S. in Electrical Engineering
LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE:
*Lead 6 people in my undergrad senior project group
*Right after graduation, I was hired as a Manufacturing Engineer. I was directly responsible for 5 operators and 2 interns and building test systems for our products.
*After one year, I was promoted to Product Engineer. I am now directly responsible for our two products, 4 operators, 2 engineers, and 1 intern. My responsibilities are similar to my old job but much much broader now.
*I am lucky to be working in a small company! =)
GMAT Score:
*Have not taken yet.
*But, I have taken the GRE and I scored 770 in Quantitative and 470 in Verbal
*I know the Verbal score is not great but I only did one practice test. I will prepare better for the GMAT of course! (“,)
REFERENCES:
1. My CEO is an HBS alum. I’ve been reminding him (since I started as an intern in our company) that I will ask for a recommendation letter when the time comes.
2. An old professor that I took a few classes with in undergrad. I have kept open communication lines with this professor even after I graduated.
3. Not sure yet. I’m keeping my options open.
What do you think of my credentials so far? Can you please point out things that I should improve on? I think I’m ok but I’m not sure how I compare to the competition so I’m scoping out the field (so to speak). You’re input is very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for the input! And, thanks for the very informative list — I will definitely keep your list in mind especially when the time comes for me to apply. Thanks again!
Rajeev Arora – that “why I want to go to Harvard” ultimatum is cheesy.
Wow, thank you so much for all this information! I am going to transfer from a community college into UW. I am a little nervous because my gpa was 2.92…That pretty low but I am working to improve myself for Undergradute construction management BA. I don’t plan, I dream of Harvard. All your advise is greatly appreciate. I still in college so I hope to work on my grade and network with others.
Great post, thanks for sharing…what type of business do you run, and how’d you fit that into the essays? Would you change anything about how you positioned that? I started a company in college and still run it, but have my eye on an MBA in 2 years or so, and hear that entrepreneurs either get in REALLY easily or have a REALLY hard time since they think we’re rogues who think we know everything (and since I do know everything I can’t blame them).
But how did you mold entrepreneurship into the application…and how would you do it differently next time???
It’s a web design/seo business. To see how I positioned the business you can read my application.
The way I’m going to do it differently next time is to divest myself of my business before applying. I want them to know that there won’t be anything to hinder my studies. I’ve already run a business while in school and from my current vantage point I don’t think I want to do that again, nor do I think it looks attractive on an application.
Hey Don,
Great web site. im not sure if you will have the time to respond to my question but am going to ask it anyway. I am an international student doing my bachelors in computer science in Melbourne. The university that i go to does not have too much to offer in extra curricular activities, so i am looking elsewhere to keep myself busy. I will be 20 when i graduate. I plan to work for 2 – 3 years before pursuing my MBA. i am not bent upon harvard( though getting into it would be great). what would you suggest i keep working on now? after graduation i will probably work as a systems administrator. How should i try and enter the business world. It seems all too confusing for me at this stage. Anyway, great blog. Cheers.
If you’re at all interested in Harvard then go read the book Ahead of the Curve. Every school is different, and you should focus on different things for different schools. HBS is the management/leadership school, MIT is the tech school, Stanford is the entrepreneurial school etc. Not to say that HBS doesn’t have entrepreneurs or tech people, or that people from MIT don’t learn anything about management/leadership, but that’s what the schools are known for. But if you read Ahead of the Curve you might decide that HBS isn’t for you at all and that you want to focus on finding out what the other schools are looking for.
But as I’ve said before, I’m a bit hesitant to offer advice about getting in to any program I haven’t gotten into myself.
I’m 14 and I plan on graduating high school in three years then going to Harvard. Do you think I’m hoping for a little to much and that I should lower my standards? All I’ve ever wanted to do is be in business and Harvard is the best. I hope you can give me some tips on what to do over the next couple years to help me get into Harvard. What kind of courses should I take etc.
Hi Don,
Im also an MBA aspirant and looking forward to apply for HARVARD…. am with a complete different background, Have done my Masters in Food Sc and Nutrition…. I liked your Blog… Now it doesnt scare me “what if my application gets rejected” I can look upon ppl like you.. All the very Best Man…
Cheers
Hi,
Awesome post Don, thank you so much for sharing this information. One quick question,
can anyone give me a list of the TOP 5 Business Schools for an MBA in the US?
I think its wonderful to go for Harvard, being the best, but just incase if someone gets accepted elsewhere, say, the #2 school in the country, would that be so bad?
Just curious, I am taking things one step at a time right now, finish up undergrad studies, then bachelors, and so on and so forth.
Thanks and Good Luck!
Don,
I think its brilliant ! and learning from mistakes is what any Business school loves to see …
Hope by now you are at harvard … Will see you there in 3 years !
Cheers!
Vasundhar
Don:
You are awesome for posting this my friend. I am planning to apply this October. 12 year internatinal legal experience. If I get in great…If not I will be BACK…thats the way it goes buddy..NEVER EVER GIVE UP…
Its actually Mr. Joshua Steimle Isn’t it? Forgive my ignorance! Interesting story you have on why you chose the name. It would’ve have been funny to see these ties still around.
Its funny the first thing I noticed on your blog is “Don Loper”…then “By Joshua Steimle” after words, so automatically, I thought you were Don Loper!
Great post, hope you in already and haven’t forgot to let us know how you did it…
Hello everyone,
I had a important question regarding the recent acceptance of the gre and gmat for b-school. While I don’t plan on applying for a few years, I scored reasonably well on the GRE, 770 quant 680 verbal, and I didn’t study for the verbal so that could go up a bit. The testing service says that this score converts to a 720 gmat. Now I was wondering if that would be considered good enough for a prestigious MBA, not only harvard but chicago, mit, stanford, etc. I know this is only one component of the application, but I would want to study and take the gmat now before I get entrenched in a investment banking job with its insane hours. Just for background I am a master student in statistics, and work running a business concurrently. Has anyone used the GRE successfully for admission, I don’t want to disadvantage myself in the future by using the wrong test.
Thanks for this – do you know if HBS actually reference checks your extracurricular activities? Also, in the awards section if you simply listed something as a ” merit based award”, is that providing sufficient detail or should I have been more thorough in my application?
This is my case:
-GPA: 4.0 (95 out of 100, in the top 5 students of my whole class(among other majors), and the #1 inside my major)
-Major degree received: Marketing & International Business
-College: Universidad Tecnológica Centroamericana
-Country of origin: Honduras, Central America.
-Leadership skills: I lead ALL my group-made class projects (leading groups of 4 to 15 people) in every single class and it was the one with ALWAYS the best score. I was elected by my classmates or postulated myself as volunteer to lead (ALWAYS). University representative in Latin American Model UN XXII at Cholula, Mexico at the Crisis committee (I played the Air Force Commander role, and we won a war against Egypt)
Member of Class committee during high school and choreographic team member (national champions 2002, 2003).
-Work experience: Retail for 5 months in Orlando Florida as intern, specifically at World of Disney at the Walt Disney World Resort, I got the highest grade among all the other interns, according to my managers feedback (I was “moving ahead”).
GMAR & TOEFL- Not yet taken
Age: 21
What are my chances?
Hi guys,
I am another aspirant for a (Harvard) MBA! I have read the blog and the posts above.
Credentials:
Again my academics are not so great, I achieved a GPA of 3.2 in Mechanical Engineering at a UK university. Albeit I have a distinction in PG Diploma and Masters certificate from reputable universities. I have various other professional certifications, about 18 months experience as a Project Engineer in a small firm with a decent level of responsibilities not possible with a larger firm. I aim to progress well within industry and hopefully attain Chartered Professional status prior to MBA application. I was recently elected Chairman for the young members panel with a professional association, and have been awarded Young Engineer of the Year.
Referees: I have currently planned to have my MSc project supervisor (distinguished/world authority) who thinks highly of me, a professional mentor, a certified Project Manager/Mechanical Engineer.
I aim to apply in about 3 or 4 years time, so I am in the planning stages now. I have not done the GMAT yet, although I think I would do well in this with preparation. Without sounding desperate, I would just like to have some feedback on chances with Harvard. I can draw up a plan to cover all the different requirements.
My only big concern is the fact that they would look at my low GPA unfavourably despite academic success post graduation? Although the website states avg GPA for MBA entrants is 3.63 meaning there would have been successful applicants with GPA similar to mine.
I would be grateful if anyone would care to comment on this.
H UK
Josh,
I have a question, then listen carefully to my advice. How much money have you made from your business and are you ready to sell your business?
If your business is sellable and/or you’ve already made a pile of cash, start reading Michael Porter books, investigate search funds, and attend a cheap MBA program that will give you the basics of corporate finance and financial accounting.
If you can’t figure out how to successfully leverage your wealth through exotic equity investments after that, then you aren’t Harvard material anyway.
The only reason to go to Harvard is to get filthy rich and if you’ve already got a few million in the bank, you can be filthy rich without dropping 200K on an education.
Let’s see…so you’re saying that nobody who is qualified for HBS should go there. Am I understanding you correctly?
And who says the only reason to go to Harvard is to get filthy rich? I wouldn’t mind being filthy rich, I suppose, but that’s not my primary reason for wanting to go there. If that were my only reason, then I would have given up on the idea a long time ago because I agree with you that a person doesn’t need to go to HBS to become filthy rich.
Okay Josh, let me explain.
The typical accepted applicant at HBS is from a top undergrad (mostly Ivy or just out of, like a georgetown, hopkins, wash u, or berkley) and has worked at a blue chip management consulting firm, investment banking/VC/PE firm, or military with time overseas (coming out of the naval academy or west point).
These people don’t have to go to HBS. If they get in, it’s icing on the cake but they have plenty of other options in life because given their upbringings, they have an established network and will do well for themselves HBS or not.
Then there are people who NEED to get into HBS to expand their network, gain a respectable university on their resume, and land a great job with a stellar firm. These people won’t get in, the people who don’t absolutely need to go to HBS but it would be nice and come from previously described background, will.
Sorry buddy, there is still hope for you but not after 30 and only if you can up your GMAT to a 760. Oh yeah, sell your company and start angel investing out of boredom, that should boost the resume too.
Out of curiosity JoseR, what are your qualifications for making these statements? Not that they don’t sound credible, I’m just wondering if you’re a graduate of HBS, work in admissions at HBS, are an admissions consultant, or just someone repeating what they heard someone else say.
I agree the age issue is a big one, although I’ve heard from recent HBS students that there are people well into their 30s and some in their 40s in the MBA program, so apparently it’s not out of the question to get in when you’re “old” even if it’s the exception rather than the rule.
And yes, my 710 GMAT is nothing to be excited about, although since I got that with minimal studying from a GMAT prep book I think by putting a bit of real work into preparation it wouldn’t be too hard to get that above a 760.
I think for me the greatest challenge is going to be my background/experience. I’m in a much better place now than I was when I applied the first time a few years ago, but I’m still not where I need to be to even think about having a shot at getting in.
My connection with HBS is not important, I just want to give a message to fellow readers.
If you notice some of the other posts, they are from young hopefuls posting current gpa’s, work stats, etc. These kids might actually think they have a legitimate shot at getting into a top ten MBA program.
They will try to get the right job, try to get the right GMAT score, try to get the right anything to make them right for HBS. After spending so many years positioning themselves and getting what they thought was the “right” everything, they don’t get accepted. Then depression insues and that dream they had of being a doctor that vanished when they read this blog, becomes another unnecessary pain.
I just wanted to add a disclaimer to this site, that’s all.
Most common acceptance criteria:
1. Top 30 undergrad with 3.5 GPA
2. IB/PE/VC or Management Consulting job with Big 4 or Bulge Bracket
3. if minority or female 700 GMAT, if other 750
4. “It” factor, that’s why they interviews, nerds neet not apply
If you do not meet all of these requirements getting into HBS might be harder than you think, proceed with caution.
Now people can understand that if they meet some but not all of these requirements, rejection from a top ten MBA is okay and it doesn’t hurt to try. But they will be happy getting into a top 50 program because they understand their application fits there.
Did I mention legacy and string pulling? Maybe for another day.
Bloody looser!! Get some poison, mix in water, drink it and try to come back again as a human and then again try for HBS. These institutions are actually responsibile for the mess which is going on in the World. Under the name of medicines to Africa for malaria, This HBS has actually helped create world a worse place to live.
-Where bastards are prepared?
AT HBS.
-Where selfish, ignorant, irresponsible so called “result driven”, “Goal oriented” Lloyd Blankfien are made?
AT HBS.