It has been two years since my application to the Harvard Business School was rejected. At the time, I put my HBS application online and invited comments and criticism. I received some great feedback, some of which was fairly harsh, but that’s what I wanted. Recently, that post was referenced on a forum on the BusinessWeek website where I and my application have become the object of some fairly entertaining derision. I was made aware of this by at least three people who emailed me to tell me about the forum and who, out of pity, I suppose, recommended I take my application down so that I wouldn’t be made fun of anymore. As a result I’ve taken the time to look over my application and think a bit about that process, and here are my thoughts.
1. I applied to HBS from an extremely weak position. Rather than being in circumstances where I had to say “Man, I have so much good stuff I have to pick and choose what to say about myself” I was forced to polish up bits of my life and try to make them look exceptional, so much so that I had to go back to my high-school years to find examples. Pretty weak, I have to admit.
2. Despite the efforts I put into my essays, I made some poor choices about how to structure them and what to include. Embarrassingly poor choices.
3. One of the essays asked me what my life plan was or what I wanted to do after graduating from HBS. At the time I didn’t know what I really wanted to do with my life. I wanted to do a lot of things, but I didn’t feel like I had a real purpose or mission of what I wanted to accomplish. So I put in some of the things that were interesting to me and tried to make it sound good, but in retrospect I think it came across as being scattered and unsure. I knew this when I was applying, but I didn’t know what to do about it at the time. I figured I would have a better idea by the time I graduated. But now that I’ve had a chance to ponder it more over the past two years, what I want to do with the rest of my life is becoming quite clear to me.
4. What became obvious immediately after applying, and which I still regard as my #1 mistake during the application process was not getting advice from any HBS grads. Any HBS grad should have been able to spend five minutes on my application and say “This is horrible–at worst you should re-write this, but it would probably be a better idea to get your life together and spend the next five years building experiences that HBS actually cares about.”
Two years ago was pretty much the low point of my life and sending an application to HBS was a Hail Mary attempt to escape. Getting rejected was the slap in the face to get my act together. Since then I’ve taken some major steps, but I still have a ways to go. I’m sure when I reapply, which will probably not be for 4-5 years, I’ll be in a much better position.
As for removing my application, I think I’ll leave it up. I’ve found the criticism to be quite helpful, and I think it would be a shame to deprive myself of it just to save myself some minor embarrassment. To me, being an idiot isn’t anything to be ashamed of, but remaining an idiot because I’m not willing to face criticism would be.
Josh,
As a long-time reader, and current MBA student, I thought I’d chime in here. I know that for quite some time you’ve been interested in HBS. Who wouldn’t be. Having gone through the application process, my advice is to broaden your target list of schools. Each school has its own DNA, and HBS is looking for a pretty specific candidate. There are other schools that offer a great, top tier experience, that may be more enthusiastic to receive your application. If you have your goals defined, and understand well how an MBA gets you there, you will find that there are several programs that will propel you along that trajectory. You definitely have a great background, the key is to find the schools that appreciate the experience you bring to the table. Best of luck, an MBA is an awesome experience.
Dude, I think you’re doing yourself a real disservice by teetering back and forth with your MBA plans and turning your blog into a virtual wishing well of sorts.
Honestly, you sound like a cheap client that wants a free website and isn’t willing to pony up anything to get some real value. Sure, cheap clients end up getting a web site from their sister or nephew “designer,” but we both know those web sites generally suck. They’re cheap sites for cheap customers.
You’re a professional. You charge people good money for good sites. If you’re serious about wanting an MBA from HBS, it’s time to bite the bullet and make a real personal and financial investment.
And for what it’s worth, I 100% agree with Bill on casting a wider net. Seriously, the desire for a Harvard-only MBA is nothing more than an ego trip. (And I hope that most HBS graduates would agree).
Very few (if any) proverbial doors will be closed to you with a Wharton, MIT, Stanford, or Kellogg MBA (not to mention several others).
The issue is not so much whether you’re HBS material or not. The issue is that there are few spaces and plenty of overly qualified candidates for these schools.
And there’s a HUGE factor of luck involved with getting in. The link above (if it worked) is a small sampling of Kellogg’s most recent class (green=accepted, blue=waitlist, red=rejected). As you can see, everyone on that list has great qualifications. And none of the accepted applicants are more than 30 years old.
Josh, I’m not a hater. I see a lot of similarities in our profiles. The fact is that you’re getting older. You haven’t had a clear, focused trajectory to your career or education. You haven’t done anything ridiculously phenomenal in life. And you don’t have any spectacular connections.
If you’re going to apply for an MBA, by all means, apply to Harvard. But if you’re going to be serious about Harvard, you need to be serious about investing time, money and effort to make it happen. You need to be serious about why you want an MBA and what you’ll do with it.
And if you’re serious about those things, then you’ll realize how foolish it would be to throw all of that investment at such a narrow and elusive target.
Perhaps this is a stupid comparison, but if a client came to you with $50K and told you that they only wanted a web site if they could have the #1 Google search spot for “online degrees,” how would you respond? Would the #2 or #3 or #4 spot not be enough? Furthermore, wouldn’t you agree that $50K would be a joke to accomplish such a feat?
By applying ONLY to Harvard with such a limited budget (your personal accomplishments and background), you’d be making an absurd mistake.
Sorry for the rant. I wish you the best. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
-J
Thanks John, I appreciate the comments, and enjoy responding to criticism that goes beyond “You’re an idiot.”
I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to by “teetering”. I applied, I rejected, I decided the rejection was legitimate and that I need to fix some things in order to have a better chance next time, I’m working on those things, and when I’ve accomplished those things then I’ll apply again. There hasn’t been any back and forth or much hesitation to speak of, just a matter of failure, analysis, strategy, and execution (the current phase).
I’m also not sure what you’re referring to when you say I need to pony up something of real value and make a real personal and financial investment. I’m happy to consider such investments, but I’m not sure what you’re suggesting.
For me, applying solely to HBS isn’t about an ego trip, although perhaps it would be for someone else. For me, it’s about doing what I’m interested in. I see the HBS MBA as something I’m interested in, and I’m not interested in other MBA programs. Maybe that’s based on a faulty perception, but that’s where 10 years of looking at MBA programs has left me. I feel the HBS MBA is worth two years of my time, and I don’t feel that way about other MBA programs. I just don’t think they’re the right fit for me. It’s not ego, it’s not that I’m above them, they’re just not what I’m looking for, the same way I like strawberry ice cream better than chocolate. No ego, just preference. Why should I work hard for something that doesn’t interest me? It’s the same reason I only applied to the business school during my undergrad years and didn’t have a backup plan to go into social studies in case I wasn’t accepted. Social studies is a great field, and it’s not my ego that kept me from considering it, it’s just that I wasn’t passionate about social studies, and I’m not passionate about what Standford, MIT, Chicago, or any other school is offering in their MBA programs.
I agree I’m getting older, and if I’m accepted I’ll probably be one of the oldest candidates there, but I’ve talked to friends of mine who are HBS grads and they don’t think age will be a deterring factor. They said there were plenty of older guys (some as old as 45) in their classes. They certainly were in the minority, but they were there.
I have had a plan all along, or at least since 1997, my second year of college. The plan was to get a Master’s of Information Systems at BYU, work for a few years, get a Harvard MBA, and then…well, that’s where things got hazy, and if that’s by what you mean by not having a clear trajectory, then I heartily agree with you. I knew what the launch was supposed to look like, but I wasn’t sure what I was aiming at. I have quite a better idea today than I had two years ago.
As for having anything phenomenal in my background or great connections, I agree. Actually, I think I do have some great connections, but for whatever idiotic reason I didn’t make use of them. A mistake, in hindsight that wasn’t clear at the time. And as for having something phenomenal in terms of experience, that’s part of the reason I’m taking a few years before I reapply. However, I would also make the point that many other HBS grads don’t necessarily have great connections or phenomenal experience. This I know from firsthand experience.
Again, I’m a bit puzzled as to your statement that I should be serious about investing time, money, and effort to make this happen. It seems the only evidence you use to come to the conclusion that I’m not making such investments is that I only applied to one school. But if my goal is a Harvard MBA and not just an MBA in general, why should I be using my time, effort, and money to apply to other schools?
Sorry to put you on the defensive man. It wasn’t my intention.
To me, teetering = is “x” really worth it? is “y” worth my time? There seems to be an undue amount of vacillation regarding investing time and money into things that will legitimately enhance your candidacy.
As far as the “preference” argument goes, you’re not choosing between two different flavors of ice cream or different fields of study, you’re choosing between brands. Clearly, you prefer Harvard ice cream. It’s not like Stanford tastes like fried chicken…although, fried chicken ice cream does sound intriguing
Finally, investing time and money for your MBA to me means knocking the GMAT out of the park, having someone who’s recently been on Harvard’s adcom advise you (or at least recent HBS grads), and refining your motives and goals as they pertain to obtaining an MBA. To me, investing doesn’t mean getting a few blog responses over the course of several months. It means making progress.
In reading your 13 life objectives, I can’t see any objectives that won’t be enhanced by getting an MBA from a top tier school. But I see plenty that would be more difficult to obtain without an MBA.
I don’t see your exclusive focus on HBS as a measure of seriousness. I see it as a measure of delusion. If you’re truly intent on attending HBS, then I think it’s disingenuous to tie that desire into your long-term goals when many other programs would lead you to a similar end.
However, I think you’re spot on to tie your HBS dream into desire itself. Like you said, “Why should I work hard for something that doesn’t interest me?” From my perspective, the thing that interests you isn’t an MBA. It’s a Harvard MBA. The two-year MBA experience isn’t a mechanism to help achieve your long-term goals (which clearly interest you). It’s a mechanism to satisfy your short-term preference…or, in my view, ego.
Let’s leave it at this: If you spend the next 3 years or more preparing for your next application to Harvard and you’re rejected again without an interview, will you feel satisfied knowing that your investment was for naught? If yes, then proceed.
If, however, you think you might feel jaded because you would still face an uphill battle on many of your long-term goals, then I think looking at other MBA programs makes sense.
I chatted with an HBS alumni awhile ago and he said, “The question isn’t whether you can get in to Harvard. I had a friend apply 5 times and I think that they eventually let him in out of pity. So, trust me, you can get in. The question is how long you want to let your life pass you by trying to get in when you could be doing something more productive in life.”
Rats, I had to run out before I had read over my last comment, and I was re-writing parts of it but it appears John got to it and responded before I was finished…just in case someone else is reading this and notes some incongruity.
Ok, so in response again…
Don’t worry, if I sound defensive I’m not all that defensive really (in an emotional sense), but I do thoroughly enjoy a good debate.
Ok, I agree with you on the investments you mention. In that sense I did not take my first application as seriously as I should have, and I won’t make the same mistake the second time. That said, I am still deciding which investments I want to make this time around. Chances are, I’ll make all of them, although I’m still gathering information, for which purpose this blog has become quite useful.
Maybe we have different definitions of the word “ego”. To me, it is pride, showing off, wanting people to think you’re great, wanting to build your image, a desire for fame, public recognition, etc. That isn’t my motivation for trying to get an MBA from HBS. My motivation is based on the HBS brand, the network, the professors (I mean specific professors, like Clayton Christensen), the focus (leadership and general management), the curriculum, and the fact I just plain like HBS and feel a tie to it.
I’m sure I could get a lot of similar things from Stanford or MIT, but I like HBS the best, and when I want something the way I want this, I’ll keep working at it until I get it. I’d be happier trying to get into HBS five times, failing every time, and never getting an MBA anywhere, than I would be to get an MBA at one of my second-choice schools and then for the rest of my life wonder if I would have gotten into HBS if I had just tried one more time.
Of course, there is a cost to trying to get in multiple times, but at the moment it’s not much. I’m not putting plans on hold or letting anything pass me by while I prepare to reapply. What I’m doing now in my life is what I would be doing regardless (with the exception of writing about this on this blog). If I apply a second time and don’t get in, I won’t feel as though I wasted any time, effort, or money, any more than I feel I wasted anything applying the first time. True, I failed the first time, but my investment could only be considered a waste if I didn’t get anything out of it, and I’ve gotten quite a bit. I can honestly say that getting rejected from HBS is one of the best things that has ever happened to me. As a result I made several changes in my life that have dramatically improved it within a short time period.
Now, if I don’t get in the second time, after achieving the goals I set for myself in order to be ready to reapply, then the situation changes. Perhaps I would consider applying to other schools at that point, or I might consider not getting an MBA at all, but I’ll leave that decision for the moment when/if I have to make it.
get a life. apply to michigan or something like that
Hi,
You have already been successful in setting up and selling business..in two years you could do lot better in real life experiences than a MBA. BillG and many others didn’t do a MBA. 
You don’t really need a MBA.
To say I don’t need an MBA means you assume you know what I need. But what does any of us really need in this life? Sure, I could be happy living in a shack in the jungle in Brazil, but that’s not what I want (at least not most days). Of course an MBA for anybody is more of a want than a need, if the ultimate goal is to be happy, but if we only focused on getting what we needed in life then we’d all be living in shacks doing subsistence farming. It’s each of us going after the things we want, not the things we need, that forces society as a whole to progress.
If you are still welcome to comments about the application, this is my impression from reading the app & comments:
You are a very ‘good’ (in the real sense) person who is very modest and who can be a little more proud about your accomplishments.
Probably, you may need a bigger ego to take strong pride in your accomplishments. If you truly believe that you are an exceptional person with exceptional acheivements in life, your application will reflect that. If you believe that your achievements are just average, the readers also would feel the same, even if you try to cover it up. (You may need to think like a Type-A personality).
But I think your strong determination to get what you aim for coupled with the willingness to work on the areas that needed improvement would surely help you in getting into HBS. All the best!
That’s the first time anybody’s advised me to work on my ego, but here goes…Oh yeah?! You think I need your help? I don’t need your help–I’m awesome! I own this world, baby! Obama’s got nothin’ on me!!!
How’s that? Maybe a little polishing and then I think it’s good to go.
Almost there
Most of the MBA’s I have interacted with act as though they own the world (I know none from HBS though). So I am assuming that a big ego is a prerequisite for getting into a B-school. Or do they learn it from there ? Who knows ..
I suspect it’s a little of both, but in all seriousness, I agree with you somewhat. I don’t think I trumpeted my accomplishments as much as I should have, nor do I think I focused on the right accomplishments. And to add to that, I think I was a bit lacking in the accomplishment department. Hopefully all that will be remedied the next time around in a few years.
Joshua,
I enjoyed reading your post and wish you luck in the application process.
Interestingly enough, I am also a BYU and BYU-I grad but am much older than you. I am in the process of returning to school for an MBA but I did not consider HBS a real option due to my age. I literally know many HBS alumni including colleagues, clients, friends and BYU alumni. Many of the HBS alumni that I know did not have highly impressive credentials prior to HBS but generally fit a certain mold: Bulge Bracket, Consulting (McK, Bain, BCG), and Private Equity. Several came from entrepreneurial backgrounds like yours. Most of the BYU guys and gals that I know came from the former (banking/consulting) and had stellar GPAs (3.8-4.0) in Economics. My suggestion to you is to talk to as many BYU guys/gals as possible and try to figure out if there was anyone who followed a path similar to yours. Unfortunately, I think HBS tends to lump the BYU applicants together and if you are not competitive with the typical BYU profile you will need a compelling reason for them to admit you.
HBS is a great program and is worth your focus but the reality is that it may be one of the tougher programs for you to enter given your profile. That being said, there are at least 20 people that I know who were, to my surprise, admitted into HBS. At the end of the day the process involves a competitive profile, the right strategy and a bit of luck.
BYU-I
Josh:
I applied to HBS twice, my first two years out of college. Didn’t have a clue what I was doing but had spent some of my growing up years in the Boston area and I thought that was the only B school worth attending. Had no connections, no experience, no nothing, but I thought HBS was for me. I even had my application reviewed by Chase Peterson who was the former Dean of Admissions at Harvard and a family friend and incorporated his suggeestions. I was rejected both years. Best thing that ever happened to me. I turned a failed try at selling life insurance into a software company that provided services for life insurance agents. I built that company over 25 years and in the process got my MBA from Real World U. I sold the company 5 years ago for more than I would have dreamed. I now teach entrepreneurship to MBA students and secretly hope that one day Harvard will invite me to speak on campus… so I can reject them!