Dear Mr. Steimle:
The MBA Admissions Board appreciates your interest in our MBA Program and the considerable effort evident in your application. Unfortunately, we are unable to offer you a place in the MBA Class of 2009.
The MBA Admissions Board carefully and thoughtfully assesses each application. Because of the large number of applications we receive, we are unable to admit many candidates who have excellent credentials and who demonstrate strong promise for careers in management.
Thank you for considering our MBA Program, and please accept our best wishes for future success.
Sincerely,
Deirdre C. Leopold
Managing Director, MBA Admissions & Financial Aid
Wow, that’s a bummer. There aren’t many ways to sugarcoat it. Of course what’s truly frustrating is that I have no idea why I wasn’t accepted, nor why I wasn’t even invited to interview, other than that those who read my application felt I wasn’t as good a candidate as the others they read.
So what now? Well, certainly know I won’t be preparing to move to Boston over the next few months, which of course means I can focus that time on MWI and some of the internal projects we’re working on.
I will also be gathering advice from as many people to see if reapplying is worth a shot or if there is something in my application that effectively disqualifies me.
That’s terrible! Not having to give up $120K in tuition and not having to move to Boston stinks. Now, you’re left with having to continue to build a business and learning from the school of hard knocks what those HBS guys wouldn’t have learned in the 2 years in school.
I managed 2 HBS interns and 1 MIT-Sloan Intern; and I went to Chicago, which is ranked #1 this year according to Business Week. I can tell you that you would’ve been SOOO bored in business school. You’ve learned what most b-school people are just learning, because you’ve been in the trenches.
Don’t despair at all. You should celebrate and double your efforts with MWI or start a new gig.
Isn’t it who you know, not what you know (or have done) to get in that kind of program?
For a guy like you I’d suggest a night MBA program at BYU, the U or Westminster. You’ll get an equivalent education (we all use the same HBS case studies) and the local networking will be invaluable. I would bet you’d drive a ton of business for MWI with just your contacts from MBA school. Please feel free to drop me a line to talk it over.
Best of luck.
@David
Isn’t everything? I was tempted to try and get some of my contacts involved, but I didn’t want to get in because anybody put in a good word for me, I wanted to get in on my own merits. But since it didn’t work maybe I will talk to those people a little more next time
@Chris
That’s the thing, I’m not interested in just getting an MBA. It really is HBS or bust for me. I know there are other programs that are probably just as good as far as education, and there are others that are rated more highly. But when I look at others I don’t feel any desire to go, and when I look at HBS I get excited, so that’s it for me. I don’t feel the motivation to apply to a program and school I’m not excited about, and I don’t think any information I could get about any other school or program would get me excited enough to take two years off or even go nights. Too bad HBS doesn’t have an exec MBA program.
HBS has an executive training program (not an MBA) that costs about $50k – its equivalent to an MBA. But that’s just more money out of your pocket and its not a degree.
Yeah, I’ve looked at that and I’m sure it would be great, but I’d hate to have to explain to everyone how I went to HBS but not for an MBA.
“It really is HBS or bust for me.”
Maybe your application showed your starry-eyed-ness for HBS. Typically, these types of candidates get dinged because the pollyana-ish attitude shows in the application. A “healthy” approach might have been where you actually considered other programs where you had a better fit and being honest about that fact. Frankly, from what I know of you, you would not have fit at HBS; Stanford sounds more like a better fit.
HBS, as a generalization, is seeking people who want to learn to be leaders of organizations. Stanford, on the other hand, focuses on innovation and entrepreneurship. If the content of your blog is any indication of the type of person that you are, then Stanford or schools that emphasize entrepreneurship and innovation might be a better fit.
It may have come through somehow, but I was conscious of the risk and purposely tried to avoid it. But leadership is what I’m truly interested in and the reason I switched to being a business major instead of an art major. For me, I see business and entrepreneurship as means to getting more leadership experience but not ends in and of themselves.
I wonder if there’s any reason I shouldn’t publish my entire application here on the blog. That is, some regulation that HBS has or something. I’ll check into that and if there’s no reason not to I’ll post it for anyone who’s interested.
Jeron has a post I read on Yepic.com about getting into a top business school (Harvard). I can see that Petes’ already on there. (are you seeing any ‘traction’ Pete?)
http://www.yepic.com/index.php?module=readPurchased&hdnArticleId=22
Since it’s free i’ve posted a section below:
IV. Career Choices
There are several traditional career paths that lead to a great business school and a much smaller set of non-traditional paths. It seems like roughly half of my classmates at Harvard had pursued the “traditional” path. I define the traditional path as 2 years of grunt work at a consulting firm or an investment bank then 2 years of work at large company, hedge fund, venture capital or private equity firm. The result is that most of the class had 4 years of work experience and most of my classmates had worked at an investment bank or consulting firm at some point in their careers.
There are several strong secondary paths that lead to top-tier business schools and the schools are adding more of these non-traditional paths each year. Here are several that I believe represent several meaningful alternative paths:
· 3+ years of consulting or investment banking. Most of the large consulting firms and investment banks encourage (or strongly encourage) professionals to move on to a different career after spending 2 years at the firm. These firms make exceptions for those professionals that they consider their strongest or top-performing professionals and they invite these professionals to stick around for 3+ years. Often individuals in this category are given raises that put their salary in a range fairly close to that of MBAs. Further, many of these firms will invite these professionals to stay at the firm until they are accepted at business school and then they will offer to pay for their business school for them in return for a commitment for these professionals to return to the firm after business school. MBA programs are aware of these programs and every year they admit many people directly from consulting firms or investment banks who have stayed at the firm for more than 2 years.
· Star undergraduates. Most of the top-tier business schools now have a track for star undergraduate students. Typically you have to have a very high GPA, incredibly GMAT scores (i.e., close to 800) and have had significant leadership experience in undergraduate to qualify. Almost every person that I knew in this category was a student body president.
· 4+ years of “big company” experience. Many of my classmates came from Fortune 500 companies—WalMart, IBM, Marconi, eBay, etc. Top-tier business schools admit a significant number of individuals from these companies each year. However, you often have to have more than 4 years of experience and you definitely will need to outperform other people of your tenure at the organization. Business schools want to see proof that you are on a faster leadership track than your peers. Typically, they want to see a rapid promotion schedule and significant leadership experience.
· 3+ years of nonprofit or social enterprise work. While this is probably the smallest category of those I have identified in terms of percentage of admitted students, it is an important one. Further, business schools are emphasizing this category more and more. Again, you will have to point to significant leadership experiences that will separate you from the large numbers of applicants with similar backgrounds
Obviously, you shouldn’t make a decision about your career path based on getting into a business school. However, I do believe that the career paths I have outlined do have a significantly higher probability of leading to a top-tier business school than others. One other thing. The career you choose before business school has enormous impact on your career choices after business school. In general, you have to have worked in private equity, venture capital, or at a hedge fund before business school to get a similar type of job upon graduation. You should keep this in mind. Business school is only a small step in your career.
Josh -
I’ve never been one for the exec programs either. I started the MBA road, but put it on hold. I met with a ton of schools, and everyone of them (I don’t think HBS is different) says they are looking for a diverse class, and that doesn’t just mean race. One school told me they accepted a guy largely based on the fact that he was a farmer. It’s funny to hear people say “this is what they want” because the schools almost always tell you differently.
All I have to say, is keep on going after what you want. Pull those strings. Do what it takes to make it happen. Go for what you want.
follow your heart . . . (as cliche as it sounds). i think it’s only cliche because it gets said more often than it gets followed.
Congratulations!!!
I appologize for my bluntnes..
Harvard or Bust? Why?
You just want bragging rights? You just want recognition or glory? If you wanted an MBA for the right reasons (growth, education, networking, experience), you would be satisfied by any of the top schools. They will all teach you the same things, and you will get a very similar experience from each. I may be premature in making this deduction, but you don’t have the right motives. Even your application did not show at all why you wanted an MBA(undoubtedly your biggest flaw). That “give up attitude” is not right for these schools, and I am glad that another more deserving and motivated candidate took your spot.
@Dan G
In short, the reason it’s Harvard or bust for me is because what I’ve learned about HBS over the past ten years gets me excited about going there, and what I’ve learned about other schools doesn’t get me excited enough to drop what I’m doing.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you mention “that give up attitude.” The only reason I’ve given as why I might not reapply is if I find out there’s something about my background that disqualifies me from getting into HBS and it happens to be something I can’t change. However, the feedback I’ve received in the last week or two seems to indicate that what kept me from getting an interview had more to do with things I can change, and therefore I am planning on reapplying.
Tough luck man; personally, I don’t think your achievements were good enough for HBS. You wrote that you were committed to your morals, but that’s not really an achievement. It is for you personally, but not for HBS. I work with a couple of HBS grads and I know that HBS wants to hitch onto rising stars and not the other way round.
If you persuaded several hundred others to commit to your same moral standards and started some sort of grassroots movement. That would be an achievement.
Also, although your service to the LDS church for a couple of years in South America is admirable. It really doesn’t show that you’re a star. Dude, you would’ve had to convert maybe 10% of the population, completely reshape the attitudes of locals and formularised the process for missionaries in order to be a star.
Take it from me, you really need to talk up your application and your achievements.
Furthermore, your ambitions were vague. Sorry to be blunt, but you really needed to show a sharp planned direction. They want people that know what they want to do and are planning for it. It sounded to me like you were undecided and had a few things in mind. They’re looking for action plans, short term, long term and most importantly, why?
Lastly, you failed with your ethics question. 50% of the essay really has to be about a “plan” to manage future ethical problems that are specific to you. You didn’t really answer this at all.
Better luck next time, I think you should apply again; but you should really sell yourself stupendously.
Essay 1 – What did you do academically that was against all odds?
Essay 2 – What 3 things did you do that changed the world in some way? Why couldn’t anybody else but you do them?
Essay 3 – Your defining experience has really got to be something that has shaped your life. What happened that you remember and use everyday?, and if you didn’t have that, it would’ve made your decisions different.
Essay 4 – You failed here. You really have to answer the question.
Essay 5 – You have to have a very specific vision. Something that will guide you for the next 20 years. Also, it has to be better than other applicants’ visions. It has to be something that HBS wants you to do. For example, if you were going to start a company that focussed on Solar power that was going to reduce the world’s greenhouse gas production, etc. If you say that you want to be a CEO & that you will serve the poor and make life better, etc. its just all bs. You have to be very specific and most importantly, you have to explain why.
Anyway, better luck next time and try again, no matter what anyone else tells you.
Thanks John, some of the best feedback so far. Whether or not I have what it takes is up to HBS to decide. But I recognize that if I do have what it takes I certainly didn’t do a good job of showing it, and for that reason I’m planning on reapplying.
My question to you, or anyone else, would be how detailed do I need to get? Is saying “I want to be the CEO of a Fortune 500 technology company” specific enough or do I need to say “I want to be the CEO of Intel”?
Being the CEO of a fortune 500 company or Intel, for that matter, says little about your career vision. Your vision has to be a long term plan. It has to identify something unique about you, your ideas and also illustrate how you’re going to implement it.
You have to answer:
1. Why do you want to be CEO of Intel? What is it that you are offering which current and past Intel CEOs don’t? What is your vision, how do you intend to lead Intel? What direction do you want to take Intel? How will this benefit the company and its shareholders? You have to identify gaps in current thinking and fill those gaps.
2. What drives you to do this? What is burning within you that tells you that you must do it? It can’t be for the cash or for the glory. It has to be for the benefit of the organization, the shareholders and ultimately society.
3. Don’t rattle on with some bs about making the world a better place by giving time to charitable sidetracks as a CEO. You don’t have the words for that. You need to focus on your competitive advantage and your direction.
4. Your vision has to be supported by the rest of your application. You have to have studied something about it in your undergrad, your leadership defining moment has to point you to it, it must be supported by your life’s achievements and lastly, your ethical musings must be a part of the whole plan. I’m sure you must’ve read it a thousand times, but all the essays have to fit together like a puzzle.
Ummm, I’m not sure whether I’m missing something here or not, but both Dan G and John F alluded to details of your application. Yet I don’t see your application essays posted on this blog.
Another factor to keep in mind is that recommenders play a big role in admissions to HBS. They do not usually expect stellar recommenders, but a poor recommendation can destroy an application. At the same time, stellar recommendations can make up for the applicant’s poor essays here and there, but obviously not all.
Hi Josh,
Did you reapply this year? And make it too? Could I have a look at your application and the essays? Am planning to apply next year in similar colleges.. Could you mail me at nitin.gk@gmail.com ?
Thanks!
“It really is HBS or bust for me. I know there are other programs that are probably just as good as far as education, and there are others that are rated more highly. But when I look at others I don’t feel any desire to go, and when I look at HBS I get excited, so that’s it for me. I don’t feel the motivation to apply to a program and school I’m not excited about, and I don’t think any information I could get about any other school or program would get me excited enough to take two years off or even go nights.”
I’m sorry for being blunt as well.
HBS or bust? You sound like a teenager. HBS isn’t even the best school in the country. That distinction is held by Stanford. It sounds to me like you just wanted to impress your friends & family by saying that you were a Haavad Man. Unless you are tied to Boston for some significant family reason, anyone who applies to HBS but not Stanford deserves to get rejected from both.
“HBS isn’t even the best school in the country.”
Who can really say what the best school in the country is? Who can say one school is the best school for all students? Maybe Stanford is better for one thing and HBS is better for another. Maybe Stanford is better for certain types of people and HBS is better for others. Ultimately, there’s no objective standard by which a school can be called “the best” school unless you narrow the perspective to one slice of the available criteria, such as “fastest payback” or “highest post-salary vs. pre-salary ratio” but does one stat or even a slew of stats make one school the best? While such stats should be taken into consideration when choosing a school, one cannot say that a subjective statement such as “I like XYZ school better” is not just as important, and is perhaps more important since I would guess most students would get more out of an education from a school they’re excited about attending.
My primary reasons for wanting to attend HBS are not based on rankings, reputation, or pumping my ego. It’s because based on what my ambitions are in life, I see HBS as providing something unique that I don’t see at other schools. If I want bananas and only one grocery store in town sells bananas, why would I go to another grocery store? It doesn’t matter what qualities other grocery stores may have. They might win more awards, be cleaner, have more variety, donate more to the poor, have nicer employees, etc., but if they don’t sell bananas and that’s what I’m looking for, there’s no point in my visiting them.