I tried outsourcing to some Bulgarians once and it was a nightmare. The last straw was when, during a critical phase of a project, the team informed me they would be out of touch for the next three days due to a party they would be attending. Since then I’ve never tried outsourcing to other countries, despite the lure of cheap labor. I’m not sure it works out well for smaller companies with highly customized work requiring lots of decisions to be made by the people doing the work. Offshore developers seem to do better when they have explicit instructions of what to do, and the kind of work MWI does doesn’t lend itself to that model.
But aside from that, this recent email I received is one more reason why I haven’t tried outsourcing again…
Hi sir We are an internet Marketing and Web Development company based in india and we are currently looking for our clients.We will be obliged if you plz us an chance to work with you .We have our expertise on Seo,Link Building and other internet marketing aspects.By working with us you can save ur time and money as india has very cheap labour and infact we can complete ur projects at a very quickly with full dedication.Hoping to seek a positive response from ur end. Regards Rohit Sharma (Marketing Manager)
I’m not sure why they would think we know where their clients are, or how they lost them, but maybe I can outsource our copywriting to them.
Wow, I think that has got to be the funniest thing I’ve ever read. In all honesty, you get exactly what you pay for when you outsource; cheap > quality. Their poor English skills don’t help much either, it makes it seem like you’re dealing with a 10 year old.
Is it really that bad? Is there anyway to overcome the hurdles that you present above? Do you know anyone who has had a good experience?
I have heard the good and the bad of offshore development…but I’m interested in learning more.
Brock
Although I only know a handful of people/companies personally who have tried outsourcing, none of those people has had a good experience. There is a joke that goes around that says when you’re working with these offshore developers you have to give them detailed instructions on how to make a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich. That bears out with my own experience. If you don’t give them exact instructions, it doesn’t get done the right way. Whereas with the developers I use locally I can give them 50% of the project requirements and they can fill in the rest on their own. They just get it. They understand how the app should work without me telling them.
With offshoring what I’ve seen is that you have to spend more time project managing, and the developers take more time to develop, and so while the hourly rate might be lower, you spend a lot more hours getting work done.
Where I think offshore development might work well is where you’re doing the same thing over and over again, or where your organization is large enough that you can have a full-time project manager who does nothing but manage those offshore developers. And that would preferably be a PM who has experience working in that country, speaks the language, understands the culture, and is a native of that country themselves.
In my case the offshore company I worked with had a rep here in the US who was from Bulgaria, and that was what sold me on them was that there was someone here that I could talk with face to face who understood English and who could communicate well with the developers. But the developers absolutely stunk and since then I’ve heard plenty of similar stories from others.
Of course some developers are dishonest and incompetent and others aren’t, so it could just be the luck of the draw as to whether someone can find a good team to work with or not, but my negative experience has turned me off from even trying someone out. It’s not fun to pay out several thousand dollars and then get no new code out of it and a month’s time lost on an urgent project.
I was trying to remain silent on this post to see where it went, but I think it is time I bring in some experience.
It all boils down to who you use - and there is an entire sub-market of companies out there that claim to be Indian development companies. They market to the ignorant - or perhaps people that have just heard about outsourcing and want to take advantage of the opportunity. They will intentionally dither down their vernacular to give you the feel that they are definitely foreign. But – as stated by Josh – they will all under deliver and botch jobs. This is not a concern for them as they operate on a project by project basis – as opposed to a relationship model.
I have successfully used outsourcing a few times, and have had good success. I got burnt on this scam model once before – which led me to sending a developer to India to find the right development house. (Bangalore) I have made relationships with two REAL development houses there and they surpass my expectations every time I use them.
Moral of the story: Find the right firm, and enjoy.
Study: Outsourcing Boom Is Over
Here’s a relevant article on this topic.
I am working on an essay for one of my college business courses and I am actually doing a paper on the cons of outsourcing jobs to countries other than your own. What do you believe to be the downfall of it? How do you believe it will affect your life if you are the middle to low class working man or woman? What are your thoughts on sweatshops and the torturous working conditions that these laborers are having to deal with? What would be your over all idea of how to keep things monitored, equal and kept so that your economy won’t be torn down. What are your thoughts on the rich getting richer and in the long run the poor getting poorer?
I am asking anybody these questions. I would love to hear some of the ideas that you may have on this subject. Please leave your name and contact info so that I may interview you at a later date if you would like. Thank you!
Stephanie M
“What do you believe to be the downfall of it?”
The usual. Distance, time zone, language, culture. It will take more than the Internet to overcome those obstacles.
“How do you believe it will affect your life if you are the middle to low class working man or woman?”
I assume you mean when your job gets outsourced. If your job gets outsourced you can do one of two things; get bitter about it and try to get the government to bail you out, or learn some new skills and go get a better job, maybe one that can’t be outsourced so easily, like being a plumber. I’m serious, you can make six figures as a plumber, and there’s no way they can get someone in India to do that job. Immigration might take that job away from you, but not outsourcing.
“What are your thoughts on sweatshops and the torturous working conditions that these laborers are having to deal with?”
I’m open to considering other viewpoints on this topic because I’m no expert, but what I believe is that if working somewhere raises a person’s standard of living, then it’s a good thing. That is, I believe it is better for a child to work in a sweatshop in horrible condition rather than begging on a street in equally horrible conditions or turning to prostitution. I think it’s shortsighted and downright cruel for someone who’s comfortable in their townhouse in the U.S. to work towards taking jobs away from poor people in other countries. Sure, the conditions might seem horrible to us, but they may not seem horrible to those people, and even if they are horrible, it might be better than any other alternative. It takes time for a country to modernize. England used to have child labor and sweatshops too. They don’t know. But if they had never had the sweatshops they may never have reached the point they’re at today. I think the matter is not as superficial and easy to understand as opponents of sweatshop labor would have us believe.
“What would be your over all idea of how to keep things monitored, equal and kept so that your economy won’t be torn down?”
I think the government should only monitor whether trade practices are fair. Is it fair for someone in another country to make something cheaper and sell it in the US for less than it could possibly be made and sold for by a US based company? In my mind that’s fair. Is it fair for a foreign company to flood US markets with goods at a price below their own cost, put US companies out of business, and then raise their prices? No, I don’t believe that is fair. I believe in open, free, and fair markets.
“What are your thoughts on the rich getting richer and in the long run the poor getting poorer?”
First of all, I’m not sure it’s true. Everyone I hear saying that also says a lot of other things I don’t agree with, and so when someone says that I find it hard to trust them.
Second, even if it is true I don’t think it’s a productive basis for discussion. The rich getting richer is not a problem. The poor getting poorer is. I don’t believe there is a connection between the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, and to focus on that connection would be non-productive and wouldn’t help anyone. The question also is not whether poor people should exist or not. I think it’s ok to have poor people. Some people like being poor. I live in Brazil for two years with people who were dirt poor. Literally. They had dirt floors in their houses and their kids were always dirty. Their total possessions consisted of a shack, a hotplate, a hammock, a TV, and a satellite dish (in Brazil it doesn’t matter how poor you are, you still have a satellite dish). I met hundreds, if not thousands of these people and talked with them in their homes, and NOT A SINGLE ONE ever complained about being poor. They were happy. They had families, their kids went to school, most of them had work, and they got by. They didn’t see themselves as poor, but if you filmed them and put them into a commercial in the US people here would look at them and say “Oh, that’s horrible that they have to live that way.” They were perfectly happy living that way. Life was pretty simple for them. Sure, they had challenges, but so do people with money. Sometimes I would much rather go live in Brazil and make $300/month than own this business here. Life was easier there.
What I think is a shame is when someone wants to improve their standard of living and can’t because of systemic problems. I think if someone wants an education they should be able to get it. If someone wants food they should be able to get it. If someone wants health care they should be able to get it. I don’t think these things should necessarily be handed out, but I think there should be a way for people to get these things if they want them. They might have to work to get them, they might even have to work hard, but when they work hard and they still can’t get them–that’s when I would say something is really wrong. I didn’t see this in Brazil, but I’m aware it exists in other countries like Bangladesh and the Phillipines. I also am aware of some microenterprise/microloan programs in those countries that are lifting hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty through miniscule loans of $5-20 dollars. A tiny, tiny amount of money can allow someone to buy a cell phone, and then they can stand on a street corner like a human telephone booth and increase their income by 300%. A person can buy a sewing machine for $20 and increae their family’s income by 500%, while paying back the loan. These aren’t handouts, they’re loans. They are paid back with interest (low interest). They allow people to maintain their dignity while giving them the tools to make their lives better. That’s just one solution to poverty, but I think it’s great, and it has nothing to do with making sure rich people don’t get richer. In fact, it’s rich people who are putting the money up for these loans. If we had made sure those rich people couldn’t get rich then maybe they wouldn’t have been able to come up with these programs that are changing millions of lives.
Your post tickes me, but still, I must say I outsource out of necessity and I have had both good and bad results. It’s like anything else–good people are hard to find overseas just like they’re hard to find in the US.
Now that my company has grown a bit, I am looking to hire an American for the day-to-day development. Nevertheless, I will always have a Phillipino on hand to do the grunt-work (even though it will require explicit instructions).
Also, I have found a great resource for PHP programming & MySQL in India. The secret (I think–at least it worked this time) for that is to bite the bullet and pay more per hour. Either way it’s cheaper than American PHP programmers working full-time jobs and doing my work on the side.